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Humberto Garcia and Jen Bruno Smith host a panel of six-figure photography studio owners who share their best lead sources, pricing strategies, biggest ROI investments, and mindset shifts.
0:00Welcome to the six figure studio panel. I'm your host Humberto Garcia with the high rollers club, and today we're going to be unlocking the profit-boosting secrets from different studios all over the country. These people are in different-sized cities. They charge different amounts for the sessions. They even have different packages, so it's going to be really interesting to hear all of their input and see where they agree and where they disagree. We cover things such as the best place to generate high-ticket leads, when they knew they were able to charge more prices and how they did it, and some of the worst places that they've found to get leads.
0:35So who are we? I'm Humberto Garcia, and this is brought to you by me and Jen Renault Smith. I'm the CEO of Photography to Profits, and I'm the marketing sales funnel expert for the high rollers club. Jen Bruno Smith from Boudoir by Jennifer Smith is an amazingly talented photographer who almost broke seven figures last year. She's put this together, and we teach thousands of photographers how to grow profitable studios using everything from organic social media, Facebook ads, Google ads, SEO. Everything you've tried and maybe failed to implement, we have basically the end-all-be-all training for. The goal for this session is to make the best panel discussion on how to build a six-figure photography studio.
1:22Today's agenda: I'm going to let the panelists introduce themselves. We're going to go over their plans for 2023, what has worked in the past six months, and then we're going to do Q&A from the audience. Let's get ready and let's begin. Some ground rules for this: I told the panelists and you the attendees to number one be engaged. Tell us what you don't agree with. Tell us what you agree with. Tell us your experiences. This is not us just talking down to you like we're better than you or we're a higher authority. This is a panel discussion where we're talking across to each other, to the panelists, and I want them to share their real thoughts. You're going to hear people disagree on things. You're going to hear discussions on sensitive topics, and that's really what we want to move us forward. At the end of this, we want you to be inspired to go take action and stop procrastinating, and to basically network with others. I encourage you to message the panelists, message them in the Facebook groups, and network. And again, viewers, drop your questions. If you're watching the replay, you won't be able to really do that, but if you do drop questions, then I'll be able to use those for the next time we run one of these. Let's get started. Let's jump into the first question. We've been asked: what is the best place to generate high-quality leads? Amy Maddox will answer this first.
2:46I advertise on wedding wire and the knot, and those wedding leads have brought us so many boudoir clients. I do shoot weddings as well, but it's sort of a multi-tiered marketing approach. Who has weddings worked for also? Does anyone have a different experience or the same?
3:05Allison: Yeah, I feel like I'm on the opposite. Weddings have not been great for me because so many bride budgets are being tapped in that moment. I was just thinking about this the other day, actually. I feel sure it was in the course or something you said or Jen said, like good clients are made, not found. And I found that really to be true. In fact, I've had a number of—my name's Allison. I'm in Los Angeles, Reclamation Boudoir. There is a lot of money here. There's a lot in big numbers, and many of the clients that I've worked with that I know have a lot of disposable income don't want to spend it the same way that I do. I've got clients this week. I had a client who lived in Inglewood, a single mom, and she bought the pinup, which isn't a high sale anymore. There was a time where I felt like that was a really high sale—a three-thousand-dollar sale. But I've had many clients like that. So to answer the question, I have found that it's not necessarily a specific place. Not that I don't like high-income clients coming my way, but it's not the be-all-end-all in my experience.
4:41People have money for what they want to have money for. They really do. What about you, Natasha? Best place for marketing?
4:47They built my business actually in Washington DC. While I was getting a doctoral program for clinical psychology, I decided to switch gears and change roles, and I built my studio on the basis of psychology and how we see ourselves as women and incorporating mental health. I was also recently diagnosed with ADHD last year, so I'm incorporating more of that neurodivergent point of view into the studio that I've created. But I love tea shops and baking, so that's what I do outside of my studio. But I do believe that clients who are really excited about transformation and how they see themselves and their mindset about their bodies has been what's really defined my role in my market. Definitely West Virginia—a lot of clients are like, wait, what? How much do you charge? I just actually have a client come from about four hours south of here, and they had gone to three other boudoir photographers in West Virginia and had marathon sessions and hated those images, and then spent eight thousand dollars yesterday with me and got my bombshell package. So I do think that it's all about how you position yourself and how you talk to your ideal client. Each of us are going to have a different client that we attract because of our personalities, our identities as women, or whatever role that we have. I've really leaned into that in my area.
6:38Where's the one place, the lead source that you've gotten most, would you guess?
6:43For sure. I've been running a few different campaigns this year, actually, and I've been calling them projects, kind of modeled off of when during COVID everybody was doing donation campaigns to soup kitchens or food places. I've done a few campaigns like that this year. I've actually been running one now that's donating to an animal pet rescue, and I've actually had thirty sessions booked in the past week from that campaign, which is awesome. I've also been running through Facebook ads an evergreen campaign for healthcare workers for boudoir. So I'm doing a bunch of different things to really bring in all of those leads and book those sessions. Last year I did ninety-three sessions, and I ended up with around four hundred seventy-seven overall in gross revenue, so it was a crazy year, and I'm excited to do it again.
7:38That's really big, especially for a small town. Does anyone else in a small town on the panel? Cassie: Yeah, my name's Cassie. My studio is Chrysalis Boudoir by Cassie K, and I'm actually not even in a physical town. I'm out in the country. The closest town to me has about two thousand people, so my reach is pretty widespread. My main focus: I'm not a social media type person. I don't do anything on Facebook. I don't do any Facebook advertising or anything like that. I rely on an email list, so focusing on generating that big email list and blogging, and then Google ads—that has been my huge driving force to my business. I'm probably on a lot smaller scale than a lot of these photographers. I'm a one-woman show, and I photograph about fifty to sixty sessions a year, but I still come just about right under two hundred fifty a year by myself. I agree with a lot of what the other women have said. I think a lot of it has to do with your personality. I've always kind of focused on quality over quantity because I'm very high-touch with my clients. Most of my clients—the closest major metropolitan area is probably two-plus hours away. On average, my clients travel about an hour and a half to me. Some three to four hours to get to me. I think being high-touch points—when I do get someone inquiring to me, I'm on top of following up with them, talking to them, making it really personalized, and just catering to them. Every single lead that I get from those sources is gold, and I nurture them as much as I can. My average sale is in the upwards of around four to five thousand. Last year ended up about four, but this year I'm sitting at around five per client. I'm probably the odd one out between a lot of these people because I have anxiety when it comes to speaking and being out there and putting myself out there on social media. I just rely a lot on that email list, Google ads, and things like this. But since I've been a high roller for quite a few years, Jen is kind of influencing me, and I'm thinking about going to bridal shows this year if I can get my stamina built up for that. You totally should. Take someone with you so that you can take a break if you need one because I don't really like large crowds. I'm actually very introverted, so being at bridal shows is very draining for me. I bring other people with me so if I need to take a brain break, I can.
10:49The biggest thing is being in big groups because I'm exactly like that. I get so nervous in big groups. But brides are hit or miss. I've had the same experience that some of the people have with brides, but I've also had some brides. Coming from Iowa, a small town Midwest, we're very conservative. I feel like when people spend their money, it's a big deal here. But I've had a lot of brides spend a ton of money on it. So I really feel like it's all about what you value and what you want to spend money on, and just finding that person and having those personalities that mesh. Spending that little bit of extra time getting to know people—they value that and they love that. I think that brings it in that much more. Thanks so much, Caitlyn. And Christina, I'm going to bring it to you, just because you guys are definitely the odd ones out because you guys are newborn and maternity, and in my experience, it hasn't always been exactly like the other portraiture. So what brings in the most clients for you and what do you spend the most on?
12:08Hi, Caitlin Feinstein here from State Art Studio. We're located in Orlando, Florida. A fun fact: we are working with Humberto and Jen to release a new newborn and maternity-focused mastermind called Baby Whispers. I definitely agree with Humberto. I do feel like maternity and newborn is slightly different. Actually, Facebook is our least one that we spend money on. For us, it's more Google ads. We spend a lot of money on Google ads and partnerships. We work with OBGYN offices with ultrasound. I feel like a lot of our leads come from there. One of the things that we actually photographed quite a few celebrities last year, and they actually came from two places: Instagram or Google, mostly because those higher-end clients want to see that you're known and you're the best in your craft. They look at reviews, and we do have a big following on Instagram with a lot of people leaving reviews, but also on Google. I feel like having that part is really important when people are making the decision. When it's not about money, it's usually about the work and what other people are saying about you.
13:52Okay, thanks so much. I do have a question. We just took a poll, and I'll ask you guys because networking was the best place to get high-paying clients. Who on the panel agrees with that and who disagrees? Networking being the best place to get high-paying clients?
14:08I think it depends on your genre. Definitely for newborn.
14:17I mean, I think, you know, networking, from having owned many other businesses, some of which were business-to-business focused, networking business-to-business is super easy. Networking business-to-individual is a little more tricky, and you just have to land in the space where that network can happen.
14:40Jennifer: I think it's been SEO for me. Oh, and hi. I'm Jennifer James. My studio is Supernova Boudoir. I live in—or my studio's in St. Augustine, Florida. I actually just moved here from the DC market nine months ago, and I'm starting from scratch. I've always—I don't know, I'm not a really good networker. Like Jen, I'm super introverted, so I need my batteries charged very high before I could go out and socialize. Hence why I work one-on-one with clients because that works for me. But I think, for the most part, my SEO kicks ass, so that's where most of my high-paying clients are finding me.
15:29Okay, awesome. Anyone else on networking? I agree that networking is amazing. In addition to doing bridal shows and stuff, we also do venue wedding venue open houses where we can talk with brides who may or may not be looking for a wedding photographer, but then they see our work, and they're like, oh, hey, maybe I could do this. This is a good little wedding gift. So definitely. So you're networking with a venue or networking? We're on a couple of preferred vendors, preferred venue lists, but also we work with wedding planners. I offer select wedding planners a discounted retainer fee for their clients. That's another thing that I can give them because networking is all about what can you give this other person. So now a wedding planner can say, hey, if you book your wedding with me, you get a one-ninety-nine retainer fee—it's three hundred off—and here's her work. So that's bringing me clients, and I'm giving them added value.
16:22Awesome. Anyone else agree or disagree strongly? Jen, you definitely shook your head in disgust.
16:32Networking is great. It is good. But you can't solely rely on that. I'm a big fan of marketing in all the places. No marketing is bad marketing. You can't ever just put all your eggs in one basket. You have to be doing all the things. Networking is great, and we do a lot of current client outreach and forming relationships with other businesses, but most of my bookings come from people that I've been warming for a long time. When they come to you, they're cold leads. They might not know you as well, but after you go through the process of email automation, and they're in your VIP group, they follow you on Instagram, they're warming up to the idea, they're warming up to you as a business. Most of my clients follow me for six to eight months before they end up booking. That turning a cold lead into a warm lead—even if they initially came from someone—it's not necessarily who they initially come from. It's the process of warming them up that gets them to book. So it's great when they're referred, but if someone just cold refers me, the chances of them booking me are a lot smaller than if I did not have that path to warm them up as a lead.
17:54I think it's often people talk about networking and then they talk about social media and Facebook as two separate things somehow. But social media and engagement in your Facebook group and on your page and on Instagram, your engagement with your audience there is networking. They are not different. You are building a reputation with that audience and getting to be able to talk to them. You just get to do it faster on social media than you can do one-on-one in a meeting. So don't really treat them differently. If you want to network well, you can network in your group too. You don't have to leave.
18:37Okay, so next one is it kind of ties into that because I was surprised that networking was voted. TikTok got zero. Networking got about forty percent. Does anyone have any opinion on any platform that others might think is very popular but has never worked for them? Maybe TikTok—you hate it? Is there any platform that you hate that you know is popular with others?
19:05I hate TikTok. Hate is not even a strong enough word for how I feel about TikTok. I love watching the videos, but making them? No. I hate it too.
19:17One of the biggest TikTokers I know, but I hate it every time I make content. I hate this. I hate this.
19:27I don't hate TikTok. I just think I don't get it. So there's a difference between actually having some disdain and just not understanding it. But Instagram is the one that—yeah—I hear peers, you know, in other genres that are like, yeah, I get most of my business on Instagram. I dumped Facebook a long time ago, and they're booking as well as we are.
19:53I've spent more energy doing nothing and getting nowhere on Instagram than any other place in my life. Does anyone do really well on Instagram? We do. Caitlyn said yes. Amy?
20:07I don't get it. Paid advertising or organic or both?
20:13Well, I don't know. You're going to get to tell me that part because I'm really just handing that stuff to you. On the paid advertising part? Organic I meant for Amy? No, we don't do paid. We just post every single day, and I have a social media manager that is on top of it. So it's just every single day, and then she posts reels and stuff too, and then we do stories. I don't know. I'm old. I don't know the lingo, but it's something like that.
20:44Yeah, I definitely do really well on TikTok and Instagram with the video that I've been putting out. I think the biggest misconception that people have about video on TikTok and Instagram is that you have to be the star of every single video that you put out. Most of my content is my clients picking up their products and just being like, holy crap, that's me. I do a lot of that reactionary kind of content on both Instagram and TikTok—my clients seeing their images on the back of the camera during my sessions with them. I'm all about featuring them as the social media that I want to put out into the world and using that interaction and sending those videos to my clients who are on the fence about even booking with me. I always send them as follow-up links like, check out my TikTok, check out my Instagram reels. I think that video—and I know Jen obviously has talked about this—the know, like, and trust factor is huge. When clients see me, I actually had a client the other day who told me she was intimidated by how happy and positive I was on a lot of my TikToks, and I told her, that's just when I'm with you. I go home and I pass out because I'm exerting so much energy with all that content. But I do think that that really helps with getting people to know you, getting people to know that you're a real person and not just this commercial entity, not this scam or whatever it is that they think you could be, because Boudoir really is vulnerable and personal. For me and my clients, the more I put myself out there—and it does take so much energy—the more they really get to know me and feel comfortable with the whole experience that I talk to them about on the phone.
22:38Okay, big question: a lot of people have doubts about whether they can build six-figure studios. Who has a home studio?
22:49I got Angela. I got Cassie. Angela, tell us. Hi, I'm Angela Seats with Boudoir Nashville. I'm in Nashville technically Mount Juliet, just right on the outside edge—like ten minutes from the airport. I technically have a studio now. It's in my backyard, but for the first three years, I literally used my own master bedroom and my own master bath in my living room. I literally rearranged it three times a week. My kids hated it. But it was what it was, and it made me get to where I am today. I'm probably one of the most shy people here, so that's why I probably won't talk a whole lot. I have people now coming to my new studio that's in my backyard because they were at my house, and now they're like, oh my gosh, I want to come to your new studio. So I'm getting repeat clients now from that. I love the long commute.
23:45Does anyone else have a home studio? We do. Tell us about it. How is it? Go ahead, Cassie.
23:58I came from shooting weddings and newborn photography. When I got into Boudoir, it was just going to be a one-off, so I set up a bedroom in my living room and shot her session. I completely fell in love with the genre, so I shot in my living room. Two weeks out of the month, our living room was a bedroom. It was hard, and it was worth every single moment of it. Within that year, we started building onto our property. We have a few acres of land on our property. I'm in my studio right now, and it's small—not even three hundred square feet—and I can usually get eight or more different sets. It's definitely easier than having it inside my house, but juggling people coming to your private home is still hard. But I wouldn't change it for the world. I love that I can just walk into my house when my son comes home from school and be here, but then come out to my studio and work when I need to. Are you in your home studio right now, Amy?
25:03Thanks so much, Cassie. Yes, yes, I have a home studio. It's technically a two-and-a-half car garage that I renovated into a very large space. But for years, I was shooting in clients' homes and renting studios. But I actually run two six-figure businesses. My wedding photography is a six-figure business. So what I did for three years straight is I saved every penny I could, so that when I did finally find that space, I could make it my own. It's one hundred percent been one of the best investments ever.
25:40Awesome. Who can tell us: if you have a commercial space, how did you know that you were ready for a commercial studio?
25:49In my two-bedroom condo outside of DC and Northern Virginia, it was an eleven-by-thirteen-square-foot room—so really, really tiny. My clients would walk in, and they'd be like, oh my God, I thought you lived in the mansion, just because I was a professional furniture remover. I outgrew that space when you have albums stacked in your coffee table and wall art leaning against your fireplace and your husband's staring at you like, when are you going to do this? You kind of get forced into going into commercial space. I'm now on my third commercial space in, I think, four years. This should be permanent for a long time. But I think you'll know when it's time.
26:37Awesome. Anyone else? I know Caitlyn, you guys just moved, right? You just got a new commercial space?
26:41Yeah, so we actually had a commercial space back in California. We moved from California three years ago. When we moved, we just didn't have the time to look for one, so we actually just rented a house and turned the house into a studio, primarily because we have a lot of stuff. When we started doing newborns, it was around the house, but we have so much stuff that you can't literally fit in a house. Once we felt ready financially, we got a commercial space.
27:32be charging luxury prices
27:34Can anyone speak to that?
27:37Absolutely. I started in my one bedroom apartment and I moved things around in my living room area and I was charging the same pricing that I am now. I also then, well, I started there and then I moved to hotel rooms and I made, I think it was 400,000 my first year after switching to Jen's pricing list and I don't think it matters about the space that you're in. It matters the experience that you give your clients and of course making sure that you're posing to sell. You're giving them a lot of variety, a lot of different positions so you can sell a lot of images and make those high sales. But it's not about the space. I have now, I rent a townhome that's reserved just for my Boudoir Studio but it's really bare bones. Like I've never been a set person or a lot of stuff person. I'm very minimalist. My ADHD brain can't handle keeping track of any other things and so I think again, it's just about how you deliver the experience to your clients. It's not about the stuff. I agree. I mean, yeah. I've been shooting in commercial. I have a fairly nice commercial studio that we exclusively shoot intimate portraiture in boudoir but I mean that works for me. But I think it's all about the experience that you're going to give your client. Like the if your head trash is saying that, oh I don't think people are going to like this, that's the way you're going to come across. So you got to make sure that you dump your own head trash, leave that at the door and present it. Present it to your clients the way you want them to have the experience.
29:18Sorry, my dog wants to be part of this too.
29:20Awesome. Speaking of which, this actually kind of gave me an idea for the next question and this is for somebody who wants to be vulnerable because a lot of people do have a lot of inner dialogue and limiting self beliefs. So can anyone speak to a current or recent self-belief where you guys really doubted yourselves and then something happened where you overcame it?
29:44That's a hard question.
29:50That's a hard question. You know what I want to say about that too bedroom apartment thing for a minute, because I started shooting in my house too, in the same exact room that I'm filming from now. It's a 12 by 12 room and I was running a half a million dollar studio from this house. And at that same time, I had three small kids under seven. So they, I was just telling someone I was on a call earlier today and I was telling the same story and they would walk by my living room that had toys piled up, in a pack and play and they would walk by it on their way to the bathroom to change and in those three years and probably four or five hundred clients, not one person ever said one thing. And these were five thousand, six thousand dollar sales then too. So I think that almost people appreciate that. Like they know that you're real, like this is you're a real person and that you have a family and it is what it is. And I don't think anybody ever, as long as your home is clean and safe, like I don't think anybody would ever. And in fact, people now when they come to our studio because it's a house, they will say, wow, like this is so nice. I was expecting cement floors and like, I don't know, it's very homey and comfortable. You know what I mean? So people appreciate that very much.
31:07I agree. And I actually, when I joined high rollers with you guys back in 2019, I was still in my condo and I built a, I got to close to 200,000 that first year just out of that little studio or that little bedroom and nobody batted an eye at it. They loved it.
31:25Awesome. Next question: What was your biggest ROI in your business, whether it's time or money? What did you apply yourself to or spend money on that has brought you the biggest results?
31:39Ours is easy. Ours would be our client closet. So I invested about thirty five thousand dollars over the past five years in a client closet and we have over 1200 lingerie sets. Our sizes go about extra extra small to 6XL and I cannot tell you how many clients have come in and said that they've booked us, obviously they love their style, but they booked us over one of our competitors because they knew they didn't have to buy a single piece of lingerie. And the other benefit to that is I know that any woman can walk into my studio, no matter her size, no matter her shape, and I'm going to have at least 10 outfits that I can put her in. They're going to flatter her figure. They're going to look amazing and then because most women don't own lingerie and if they do own lingerie, it's like baby dolls, it's flowy stuff, it's nothing that's going to look good in photography. And so for me, that was our biggest return of investment.
32:35And I have a shopping problem. So I would like to say that my biggest ROI is investing in myself, like in the high rollers and in the classes and the education that I've done because that's been huge and empowering me to believe that I can do it. And if you don't believe you can do it, you can't do it. So that's the beginning for me.
32:59Totally yes. I agree with that a ton because I feel like that was the first thing that I actually even spend money on when I decided to jump into Boudoir is I got a mentor and having that mentor and having someone, and it's so funny, I didn't speak up when you're talking about the limiting beliefs, but like I literally probably have them daily. Like I am so hard on myself. So when you're like name one, I'm like I can't name just one. There's a hundred. And overcoming them and having like that education and someone who's like a cheerleader and show you that they can do it and how they overcome it, it's just so helpful. And then I think also investing time with your clients too. The most that I invested was not necessarily a dollar amount, it was my time in creating an amazing process that answers so many questions for my clients. Like when they walk through the door, they know that they have a good handle on the day and what's going to happen and they can be confident in everything. So investing a lot of time and effort into that process to prepare my clients and having that one-on-one time with my clients, I mean it has quadrupled my sales average over the last three years just from that alone.
34:21I'm going to say that I just dropped a poll that says what's your level of dedication in photography and most of the answers, 66 percent is like, the ultra consumed, every hour that they have, they try to use, which is awesome. So please drop in the chat, let us know more about that while we continue. Chris, what are we going to say?
34:40I think for me, the biggest ROI has been other people. The delegating out all the stuff that I need to not be doing. You know, when I hired a studio manager a couple years ago, she's unbelievable. I mean, she basically runs the entire back end of the business. Having a full-time head dedicated hair and makeup people instead of trying to piece it together for every shoot. I've got somebody making calls for me now. I've got hiring Humberto's team to outsource the social media and marketing and website and ads. Even, I don't know, maybe it was a couple years ago, I was doing a webinar like this and I was talking to someone and they asked like about my developing process and someone chimed in and they're like, yeah, you need to quit doing that crap. I'm like, what do you mean? They're like, why are you developing pictures and outsourcing that? It's like, no, I'm really good at dealing with clients and doing the clicky part but the rest is crap I should not be handling. And the more I don't do that stuff, the more I like what I'm doing. So the revenue goes up but that's secondary. It's just more enjoyable.
36:06Awesome. The question is still, what was your biggest ROI?
36:08Yeah, I think mine this past year has been investing in myself and kind of work-life balance again, in some ways, which I know has been an ongoing topic. But I as an ADHD person, first year I've been in, second and third year have all been hyper focused on just reaching big money goals that I had for myself. Numbers are really comfortable for me to figure out and figure out what works for me. Never been afraid of numbers. But being able to kind of invest in like going to yoga class, doing a retreat in Hawaii that I went to in February, making connections with some of the therapists and other kind of mental health, yoga, wellness people in my area that really connect with my ideal client and connect with my brand and my mission and purpose in helping women kind of heal some of the trauma and body image issues that they have. And I've had so many clients come to me now this past year who are divorced, who are single, who are widowed and just looking for something that's different than just a normal kind of boudoir gift to give to someone else. So I think getting back to me and helping myself kind of heal some of my perfectionism too, that I was dealing with, because I've done everything myself for the past three or four years and hiring a new kind of online business manager to help me plan this upcoming year and getting back time for myself. I think you just get into a rut sometimes and you have to kind of reinvigorate yourself too and your work and make it something that your soul and you're excited about going to and providing the amazing experience.
37:52Awesome. Anyone else on that?
37:55All right, I think a lot of the things that were said was really true and I was like, oh my God, all those things were true in our business. And one of the things that I like were more recent for us, a year or two ago, it was when we got the new studio, the commercial space. We designed a lot more sets, especially for maternity. I feel like in the maternity world, it wasn't as much about the sets. But I agreed with Amy too. We have a lot of stuff. So I feel very comfortable when a pregnant mama comes into the studio and we have 10 different outfits for her and it's why most of our clients book us. It's because we provide everything. They literally can just walk in, not bring anything. We'll do the hair and makeup. And I feel like that is one of the best, one of the biggest reasons to book us. But also creating the different sets allowed us to have a lot more variety and we started selling a lot more different pictures. So I think that's a part as well.
38:54Can I ask you another question? Can I jump in and ask a question about the wardrobes?
39:01Sure, yeah, yeah.
39:02Do you guys choose the outfits for them?
39:04Yes, we do.
39:07Okay, because I'm always afraid that they're going to show up with nothing and then they have to try things on and it's like, oh God, like I don't feel great in what I wear and it's like I don't want that vibe and energy right before they're going to shoot.
39:19The experts, so we basically say, come in, we're going to pull things that we know from our experience will look good on your body type, your skin tone. If you want to browse the client closet, you're more than welcome. But that leads to decision fatigue. So we, and most of our clients are like, oh thank God, you're going to choose for me. So I have no idea what I'm doing. We got you, girl.
39:40On like your studio because I love it when they bring in things that they love, like things that are not lingerie. I actually lean into that a lot, like white button downs, t-shirts, sweaters, flannels, cowboy boots. I had a client yesterday bringing a racetrack helmet, or she races cars. I've had clients bringing boxing gloves. Like it really just depends on you and what you love to photograph and what you love to shoot. I get really bored of lingerie. I love lingerie but I love bold kind of versions of women. Like we're not just one thing. And so I love when they bring in things and then I also have a client closet too that I keep stocked that I know I have in my back pocket if they bring in all black or all baby dolls or all this or all that. Like I know I can put them in this and they'll look amazing. So it really just depends on you and how you feel comfortable and kind of guiding your clients through the experience and what you love to shoot.
40:35Okay.
40:36Here's another question. This kind of goes into the theme for today: How do you run a successful studio without shooting every day? Someone is overwhelmed by even shooting once a week so they want to know how you even manage to do that volume?
40:54You scale. You have to scale. I mean, when you want to grow, you have to scale or use charge more so that you do less work and you're making more money. But scaling leads to freedom. And I have three associate photographers now. For me, I've shot maybe 10 sessions this year, year to date. The studio is a shade under 200,000 in revenue. So it's awesome. I do all the IPS though. I keep all the IPS sessions. I don't want to give those up, but maybe eventually I will. But right now, I still really enjoy doing them. But this year on my schedule, I have about 50. I'll probably take about 10 or 15 more.
41:46Anyone else? Anyone else? Like doing a lot or moderating themselves?
41:49Yeah, I went from doing. So last year, he shot 243 full sessions last year. And yeah, I don't want to do that anymore. We're trying to get that down to 160 to 180 for me, just from a work-life balance. I like to play a lot. I don't work on weekends. I don't work more than one night a week. I take months a year off to go goof off. And I can't do that and shoot 250 sessions. It just doesn't work. So for me, if I actually end up making some more money because I'm raising my prices and doing less work, that's great. But the money's not driving me. You know, four sessions a week, two days of doubles, that's all I'm in the studio and I'm pretty happy with that.
42:54Yeah, I've been talking about like capacity and how much energy you have for clients versus like your everyday life. Again, talking about work-life balance. And something that I'm learning about and talking about a lot in my ADHD groups and figuring out what is your right kind of energy level, and for me, it's always been about three sessions a week. If I do more than that, I always feel a little bit I'm just tapped out. And even sometimes three is a lot and just depending on the day. But I think kind of booking yourself at least three a week because you will have attrition, you will have reschedules, you will have cancels, like Jen talks about. So I even try sometimes just, you know, finding your happy average per month is really helpful. And then of course, like building up your sales average so that you know you're reaching the kind of money goals or student loan payoff, retirement, all the things that you want to reach for yourself and your business, it's really helpful.
43:52Anyone doing not that much volume? I know someone said average, maybe once a week. Someone said 50 to 60 clients here? Yeah, that's me. I do between 50 and 60. I knew starting out I never wanted to be a high volume studio and anything over that to me feels very high volume. I wanted to kind of keep things intimate. I'm a huge introverted person. Like I get in situations like this and usually I'm kind of a spaz. So I'm good that I'm keeping it together today. But you're doing a great job. You're doing good. But you know, I just, I and right out of the beginning, I just kind of knew my threshold. Like I love being one-on-one with people. Like I actually really enjoy that. But like Jen was talking about earlier, like it takes a lot out of me. So you know, for me, I knew my limitations. I knew that doing more than that, you know, that might change for me in the future and I might feel comfortable having like staff underneath me to outsource and scale and do those things that like Jen's doing. But for right now, like with where I'm at in my life, it's just like my energy, what I can put into it is, you know, maybe a couple a week. And that's, you know, and that's okay. And it's a matter of when you have to sit down, it's like, okay, you know, it's exhausting for me to do one. That's great. But look at the logistics of it. Like you're probably not going to make, you know, six figures. You know, maybe possibly doing that. But if you are, you're going to have to charge a good amount and you have to provide that experience and have like those touch points to kind of demand that higher price that you're going to want to be. And you have to be able to be okay with that. Either, you know, I'm not going to be making like half a million dollars a year and that's okay. But at the same time, what's that trade-off for making half a million dollars a year? Does that make sense?
46:02Yeah. How long? Who raised your hand if your shoots take less than 90 minutes? Raise your hand. They take less than 90 minutes? Wait. From the actual shooting part? Actually, the whole experience from the time they walk in the door?
46:15Yeah. For no, just shooting.
46:21Yeah.
46:22Wondering why?
46:24Yeah, right around 90, maybe a little bit more. So how do you guys stay on the short end?
46:32Well, we have like a set number. Like we do this pose at the set, this pose at the set. And I trained Hunter to be the posing specialist. So while I'm setting things up, she's showing them the pose, or vice versa. And it's cut our shoot time down by at least 30 minutes, maybe more.
46:52Who shoots on the long end?
46:55Yeah. How long again?
46:58How long, Jennifer?
47:00At least it's usually like two hours. I'm, you know, I'm really excited if I finish in 90 minutes and I'll tell them, wow, this is a record, and then we laugh. But I'm a lengthy shooter. I've tried to cut it down and I just can't. So I roll with it.
47:19I, for me, it's just based on the vibe of the client. Like, some clients we get through stuff really quick. But you know, if a client needs a little more care, then we're there for their convenience. They're not there for our convenience. So I build in plenty of time in the daily schedule so that, hey, if they need to take a break a couple times, if they've got some physical things that they're, you know, it's a little tougher for them, I'm not rushing them. They're paying me a lot of money. I'd be there an extra half hour and it's not going to change my life one day.
47:55I do everything all in one day. So hair and makeup takes about an hour and a half. I like to shoot about an hour and a half, give them a break for an hour, and they come back and I do the IPS. So I usually tell my clients 2:30 to 3 and I want to make sure I get them out by that time because a lot of them are moms, got to pick up their kids from school. So I don't feel like I rushed them ever. I don't, you know, I'm never on that. But I just kind of keep them going, changing the outfits, and let's keep moving.
48:25Awesome. Well, I think it depends on genre. Newborn sessions are very long. But that's because you can't reason with a baby.
48:36Don't even ask how much. I don't even ask how much.
48:42How many people raise your hand if you have a very solid retirement plan?
48:47Okay. About, oh, we got some hands raised. Let's go, Amy. You're shying away. Why is that your answer?
48:57No. So I'm still in the, this is our second year of business and I would say I'm still at that phase where I'm obsessed with my business. I live, eat, drink, breathe photography, courses, podcasts. So right now we're in the growth phase. So I'm not there yet. We haven't looked at an end yet. Right now we're in the hustle stage.
49:22Who else? Who else is in the hustle stage? Not wearing, that's somebody else's problem. Retirement, somebody else's problem.
49:29I think Mallory, she brought up student loan payoff. And I think I was in a doctoral program for Clinical Psychology and I, what spurred me to kind of build my business because I knew that would be a big thing to be able to create more income for myself to be able to pay off my student loans. And that's always something that I juggle with. And I actually hired like a financial advisor last year to kind of help me figure out student loan payoff versus retirement and how I could do both at the same time. And I think that's an ongoing conversation and, you know, figuring out kind of what works for you and what works for your studio and being able to grow your studio and also take care of yourself as well.
50:12I've got to be one of the more senior people, you know, age-wise in the group. So yeah, I think there's a point at which you do have to start facing that. Like that, there's a reality that you can't do this forever. So there's got to be a, you know, an exit strategy. I think it's really easy to get caught up when you're in the first couple years of your business when you've got 20, 30, 35, 40 years ahead of you and feel like I can just focus on the hustle and someday I'll get to the retirement thing. Trust me, from someone who's getting closer to the retirement thing, don't do that. That's a really bad plan. So if your parents are telling you that you should be thinking about retirement and you're like, hey, I'm in the hustle phase, they're right. That's, they're just right.
51:06I've stopped contributing for a little while just because building a studio is very expensive and I didn't work for like nine months. But my husband and I did just drop a huge chunk of change into an annuity as part of our retirement plan, just based on the recommendations of a financial planner that we hired, two years ago. So yeah.
51:32Some? Anyone else experience with retirement? Hate the topic? Cassie? What do you got to say? Caitlin? She's still on.
51:37I worked for a financial institution for 16 years prior to doing this. So I transitioned into being a business owner in my mid to late 30s. I mean, I'm in my early mid-40s. And it was just not an option for me. I mean, I left a really good paying job. I mean, they were putting, for every five percent of my income I was putting in, they were putting in 15 percent. So like 20 percent of my income was going into an IRA or 401K. And it's, you know, like I don't want to be living off Social Security if I even have Social Security. And I do want to retire. So it's like, for me, that was one of the first pieces. Not only the income that I'd make for my business, but putting that money in for retirement. And yeah, I mean, Chris is so right. Like, you have to think about that. It's a part of your salary. Like, you need to think about, okay, not just wanting to pay my bills, but like planning for the future. It's that loan officer in me just like, oh no, you got to think about that. Well, you know, I also think that people, like, when you see people, oh, are you saving for retirement? Like, my guess is most people are thinking like IRAs, 401K plans, annuities, investments, like, all that stuff is true. I'm a former accredited investment professional sharing for big corporate retirement plans. So I lived that world for a lot of years. But as a photographer and as a business owner, buy your studio. Invest in the real estate. Let your business pay that off instead of paying rent. And at the end of it, you've got something that's actually worth something. That is part of your retirement. So you know, it doesn't always have to look like, oh, well, I don't have time to put anything in an IRA. How much are you paying a month for your studio? Could you be putting that into a business you own instead?
53:39I feel like it sneaks up on you too, where like, you're like, I'll do it. I'll do it then. I'll do it in like two years. I'll do it in five years. And then, you know, you get to where like Randy and I were like 38 and we were like, oh, we've really got to get ourselves together. And I don't handle all of that. Randy does. So I had him text me. But I guess we have traditional retirement assets plus we utilize cash flow banking policies through life insurance to purchase cash flowing assets like businesses, property, and crypto. Our goal is to over fund our
54:12cash flow bank and use it to have diversified hard assets real estate and other businesses that is from Randy but yeah that's I would not have come up with all of that on my own but that's funny but it is true I think that we as business owners were so focused on the hustle that you don't you're like I gotta do it now and it is it is very hard to kind of look past the hustle for the future but your hands can't work forever which is why you have to plan for retirement or you have to scale so that and scaling is my other retirement plan so I have three associate photographers my plan is to eventually have more and potentially a national brand and so that's the long term you have to continue to plan for your business too I guess
55:02awesome all right so moving on this is to the last phase there are a couple questions here in Zoom that I'll get to but before we get to that one that way you guys have time to type them in moving forward what are your goals moving forward obviously you guys grew to this stage and now there's different problems to have so what are your plans for the next two years and what kind of challenges are you facing and how you're going to overcome them
55:31Cassie you were the first one on the list because you said that you're still kind of boutique style so is that something you're trying to get past
55:42yeah I actually probably the last six months like I've actually sat down and taken a really hard look at what so many of the other panelists have said being a perfectionist I'm like it's not so much like perfectionist but like holding on to things because my business has been my baby for so long but I have started outsourcing a lot like over the last year like I learned to be able to let go of some things and then trust and what that looks like so looking at hiring an assistant for this next year to handle some of those things that I probably don't need to handle so that way I can focus on because I think that's a hard thing like when you're boutique and you are on your own you don't necessarily have a sounding board where being a part of the high rollers club and stuff like that that's been my sounding board and seeing what other people do but no one knows your business like you know your business so having that sounding board within your business and then I can have that much more time to really focus on growing my business too where that's something that I really haven't as boutique you know 50 sessions a year doing it 99.9 on my own it's a lot of work and I don't get the time that I want to dedicate to scaling and growing so yeah that is something and maybe I won't scale past that like boutique but being able to outsource hand off some of that stuff so that way I do have that opportunity but right now it's kind of hard once you kind of max yourself out
57:27and who else I know Chris you mentioned before you did a lot of volume before trying to drop that down and increase prices so how is that endeavor going
57:39you and I have been working together for what two months now maybe I think we swapped our price list about a week after we spoke and the cost per image in our price list didn't really change we were still we still charge about 100 bucks an image if you break it down I mean that's what it is my average sale is basically doubled this year in the last two months so that combined with just not freaking booking myself to death because I want to help everybody now and it's kind of nice we have clients calling in that want to do a shoot in two weeks and I'm like well if you want to do it in April you're going to need another year added on to get me in April and yeah it's okay they'll wait and it's okay by the way I will say obviously we spoke before about this and I you've been in business for a while and do you mind if I say what the average what was the average sale before
58:46I was just I think it was just under like two grand maybe between 1700 and 2 grand was normal so what made like because obviously there was a belief where maybe you thought your market couldn't withstand it like what
59:05it was totally in my head it's all our own head trash so I've been in business I've been doing well I've been shooting since I was 14 so that was 38 years ago but I've had this studio open for eight years exclusively for this and when I started out I mean I'm embarrassed to say that I may have done a couple of shoots where it was 200 bucks and they get everything they want but in all honesty when I first started out doing this I couldn't believe anybody paid me 200 bucks to do this so that was I was stunned that that would happen and I remember raising my prices from 200 to 500 and I mean in relative terms of what we do now between seven come on you know any yeah we're we are so far above that but the first time I had to talk to a client on the phone to tell them my prices and I said 500 I literally wanted to throw up on my shoes and I was ready for the battle I was armed that I was ready for them to say well that's too much and how dare you and they said how much was it I said 500 and they said what should I bring and I went wait what no I said 500 did you hear me I said 500 and they just kept going and we it's funny that happens at every level you know my top package was like three grand up until now and now my top package is 10 grand and no one blinked like I was the only one that blinked the market didn't the market was already there so yeah it's our head trash not the market in it can I jump into
61:02so I mean as some of you know I moved to Florida from DC DC is a very affluent market and I was told by another photographer I won't name names that the reason that I did so well right off the gate was because DC is so affluent and people have so much disposable income and so I made it my mission when we moved down here to repeat that process here and do better and you know my bookings have been slower because I don't have the brand recognition down here that I did up in DC but my average has continued climbing I think I'm at like 5500 in Northeast Florida where the population is one-sixth the size of DC and like 40 percent lower cost of living it really is a mindset thing and going back to what Jen said at the beginning of this is people will pay for what they really prioritize and want
61:54absolutely yeah I think making your business work for you and I've seen a lot of people mention ADHD and that's been my experience this past year making my almost dismantling my business that was taking too much of my energy and kind of rebuilding it this year with my energy and mind and capacity in mind and bringing on people to help and support me with all the goals that I've had in mind I think is important and just really recognizing where you are in your business and all the mindset elements that come in like Chris was mentioning and Jen I mean we bring so much into our work and I still am constantly shocked by sometimes some of the self-sabotage that I have going on like oh I don't need to do this today or whatever it is that we're prioritizing and it's a constant daily thing to kind of recognize those things and be able to overcome them and to be vulnerable and to show that we are imperfect people and we're reaching goals that yes we have for ourselves but it's something that's ongoing I think we all have moments and we hear the term imposter syndrome coming around a lot and I think that we all kind of lean into that because it's the word it's what everyone says when we're feeling that uncomfortable feeling but growth comes from fear so I don't necessarily think that it's feeling like you're an imposter it's more just feeling the fear of growth and that's not necessarily a bad thing because when you're feeling that discomfort or fear it typically means that it's time to grow so when I'm feeling that discomfort because we all do in all areas of life not just in business I try to step back and think to myself but what am I scared of what is the fear that I'm going to fail I mean well I'm not going to fail because it's not an option so you know what I mean so I think you have to go back to what is the source of that discomfort and what everyone else was saying like when I added that twelve thousand dollar collection to my menu I was like no one's ever going to buy this I'm not ever going to sell it I'm not going to try to sell it because no one's going to buy it someone bought that collection and wouldn't you know it I was like someone just bought that collection because I didn't believe it would happen either so I think the first step is always believing in yourself and coming back to that when the little voice the self-talk is saying the worst thing that could happen is you could fail you have to be like so what I'm not going to fail and if something doesn't work you pivot and you try again that's what the most successful entrepreneurs are able to recognize when they need to pivot and they do it they don't think about it they do it that ability to take action is key in sustaining a business because at this point you stagnate or you grow you know what I mean you can't you gotta grow you have to keep pivoting and growing
65:04all right awesome let's go on to lastly we got about five minutes left to this really quickly I'm going to go through some of the questions networking with wedding planners how did you originally reach out and did you offer discounts to their people bye for you Amy yes I did so I mean shooting so many weddings every weekend obviously I would meet tons of wedding planners and I would just offer it to any of them and I would make sure that while we're sitting down eating dinner I would talk about Boudoir I would show them my Instagram or whatever and then many of them just it got to the point where I became so just not to sound conceited but recognized in the wedding industry that when I would show up to a wedding the planner would come up to me and say hi I'm excited to work with you don't you also shoot Boudoir because I show on my Instagram it's Boudoir and weddings all in one so because I'm showing both they're interested in both does that make sense yeah awesome thanks so much for sharing that next question is what if somebody's not having any traction and everything's really slow like what's the one thing they can do to turn things around
66:21there's a cheater answer to that and that is hire someone that knows what they're doing and have them do it right and yes that's going to cost money and if you're a business owner well welcome to owning a business
66:46has four years in for me my everything started when I was vulnerable with my community when I was friend requesting every single woman that I could find who worked at a local hospital near me I was just blatantly putting myself out there sharing my story sharing my own personal life my puppy images with my clients when I was truly myself and now with sharing my ADHD story also and learning about my capacity and things that I've been perfectionist on or not just being myself kind of been the reason why my clients are attracted to me so I know that that's the hardest thing to do but just coming to a place where you can share that with your local community and they'll be attracted to it because they'll love that you're a real person you're not just a business some yeah I think oh I'm sorry go ahead I'll go next I was going to say jumping on Natasha's point I think really being vulnerable with the people that follow you it can be beneficial I know there's like people on the camp of like keep it really professional and don't show too much of yourself and that I mean it's fine it works for them a lot of people know I'm a domestic violence survivor and so I talk about that a lot with my clients and I get a lot of domestic violence survivors in my studio who are looking to overcome what they've experienced with me and honestly it's healing on both sides but I think just being vulnerable people are going to be attracted to your energy to your specific energy which also makes it easier to find clients or make clients than find them
68:30yeah I think the whole idea of putting yourself as you out there your clients look I am going to say this with all due respect to all the amazing photographers that are on this panel and probably the however you know 92 people that are watching but the fact that we can take a good picture means crap between us and a billion other people can right what people are buying is our ability to provide that experience and their trust in us and the only way they're going to trust us is if they get to know us so if you try to keep yourself at arm's length your customers will too
69:18nice okay so I agree with all those things but also I feel like when we were in a moment where no one's booking you know you're kind of so for us it was always like the mantra like fake it till you make it like when someone calls in and you're like they're like I want to book and I'm like I don't know like I have to check my schedule and it's funny like I think back then or like I don't know where but for a year in advance and back then it was like all I but now think about it you're like oh my God we're booked it's so you know fake it till you make it because you're definitely going to make it what is it what Jen Bruno Smith always says people want what other people want is that what you always say Jen yeah yeah it's true people want what other people want I mean that even in like elementary school my daughter comes home and she's like Lexi has this Liza has this I want this I'm like yes it's true from the very beginning we want what other people want and so providing an amazing client experience branding yourself in a very solid way those are all things that lead to that brand awareness and brand trust so that when people need yours or want your services or want these services they think of you first and creating desire like for me that's always also been something I've come back to we have to also remember that some people know what Boudoir is but they don't know what our version of Boudoir is like each of us has our own version of what we provide and really being honest and sharing that like that's what is going to bring us all
71:08second to last question is any tips on finding a social media manager that's on top of it I'll rephrase this question to say how do you just hire really good people to do things how do you find employees I found my social media manager in the Mastermind the 2.0 group oh she's like another Mastermind member yeah well now she's she was referred by another performer so yes awesome I mean that's a great resource that is a huge community of photographers and great way to network anyone else employees you could just hire your stepdaughter yeah that's kind of cheating isn't it Cassie you were saying that you were scared to hire an associate or an assistant because you're such a control freak girl I am the most intense control freak but I promise it will save you so much time and effort and you'll be so happy you did it for me it's I think a lot of the fear that surrounds is like how do you explain to somebody else what you do you know it's like that's the hard part is conveying all those little things it's like until you like sit down and that's why I've been like looking at it over time it's like how do you sit down and like quantify holy crap this is what I do so I I need to get over that hump and stop being scared but right don't give someone all the things all at once because imagine if someone gave you a list of 45 things and we're like learn all these things and do them really well you would be like uh-uh I'm not here for this so even like you know Nikki has been with me for 10 years I still am giving her new tasks I just gave her the album design tasks 10 years later so I'm still giving her new things to do and I want to comment really quickly on letting people in like the vulnerability thing I think that you don't have to put everything out there I think you can do it with you know with still being reserved about things that you feel like I would not put things out there that you are not a hundred and ten percent comfortable with people knowing do you know what I mean I don't think you have to have a platform or you have to have that vulnerability I think you can say I don't really show any like there isn't really a thing for me besides being a mom and that's it and it's okay because people still hire you but I do connect with my clients on being a mom a lot of my clients have that I have that in common with them so I think seeing some of the side comments where people are like I'm not sure what to be vulnerable about well I don't think you have to like figure it out I think you could just be a really good business owner and relate to your clients on a personal level and I think that's enough I don't think you need to yeah yeah it doesn't work for everybody and you feel for it you should not force it for sure that genuineness I guess people feel it because when you're forcing something like that people will be like oh I don't know but and so you really it has to come from a genuine place so if you're someone who's like oh I don't know if I feel comfortable saying this or doing this then that is your inner business voice your inner voice in general saying don't do it so you know I think instead focus on just being genuine with clients and trying to relate to them and keeping in mind too that it's about them it's not about you so you don't want to go to a session and do all your stuff and say all your stuff you want them to feel comfortable so yes you should not be lying at their session I think for me it's more about in the marketing aspect is where I mentioned it's like it's on my website and occasionally I might talk about on social media way less now than before but yes the session totally reserved for the client they should be feeling like they're the star of that show you know what I mean so yeah it's just nuggets and pieces and I think like when we talk about vulnerability we think it's like word vomit like everything and I think again that's maybe each year I've learned to kind of keep certain things to myself but obviously share and relate to clients in a way that I'm asking them questions about themselves then questions about their personal experiences and then maybe sharing a tidbit here and there about mine but I think making them the star making them feel like they are the center of attention is important but I think also like this year I've learned to also share things that I used to not share because I felt like it would be too much so it's a balance of back and forth and I'd love to talk with anyone else more about it but I think genuine connection is all about back and forth It's not a one-sided thing I think genuineness is probably better than necessarily vulnerability because you know we all have things that like for me being genuine just period is vulnerable because I grew up and I was bullied as a kid so me sharing about my personality I'm always fearful that someone's going to judge me or someone's going to think badly about me or think certain things about me so it just kind of results from that experience so for me just like telling anybody about me or that I love 90s hip-hop and I love movie quotes and stupid things to me like oh my God people are that's going to give them ammo to make fun of me those are the things that people get drawn to and they're like oh I like that too and oh that's kind of a nerdy thing that I don't want to tell people about so it's more about like you said like being genuine I think than and that's just like a vulnerability in itself it doesn't have to be something like a really big huge platform to speak about but it's just your willingness to share about yourself makes people want to reciprocate that they see that and they feel that and they just I think feel comfortable in that whether it's in your marketing or you know one-on-one with clients I feel like that's just kind of a universal feeling I love that feeling that you can even when you're talking now you get that from you now this is just you this isn't something you're putting on and I think that speaks to that we're genuine it's like just be you you're not going to share the same level of vulnerability that you share with your partner in life that you do with your clients well I mean I hope not because if one of them you're screwing up I don't know which one it is but if they're the same one of them's not right but yeah just be authentic and genuine because they want to know you're human they want to know that they can identify with us I'm a kind of an oddity you know obviously on the panel as a male body photographer like people walk in the studio and they want to know that we're real people we have families too and my dog will probably be there and I'm going to talk about my grandkids and that's going to happen and just because I want them to know that I'm actually a real person because it's easy to get you know for any of us for any reason to be like oh well you're this so I'm going to assume that so I think building a team comes down to that too I have really failed a lot with building a team last year with trying to give people too much like John was saying she quickly like not knowing how to break down tasks like you're saying Cassie I've gone through a lot of trying to figure out how to do those things and I found my online business manager through an ADHD coaching thing that I started going to which is my own little Mastermind on the side and learning that my brain works differently and I need to be able to do things differently and not shaming myself and not kind of contributing to the perfectionism that I was holding on to so learning what works for you and how you communicate with your helpers with your however way like it doesn't have to be a full-time employee I'm working with contractors I found an assistant service also that was recommended to me by other photographers and I found a virtual assistant who does my calls now and I spend a whole month kind of training her but finding what works for you is important I do think I was going through a kind of messaging and branding training and I think the best way I could summarize it was he said that he would bring clients that would bring him brands and websites and they would ask for critiques and what he would really try to pull out of them is the problem like the dragon and how you're slaying it so it's not necessarily like like for me I'm a perfect example I'm not a photographer but I have to communicate to photography problems and photographers and their marketing and their sales I don't ever use my personal issues I almost never share anything like I've been through even though I've been in the military for 10 years but I can
80:52help by telling other people's stories
80:54by highlighting other people so I never really have to put myself in the seat and always just communicate that way but focusing on how do you present the problem and how do you present yourself as this slayer where you guys are the common team against that and it doesn't always have to be with you putting yourself in the center of it it could also be done by storytelling with case studies with client testimonials with sharing other women's stories or whatever genre you're doing
81:26Yeah, but that's a topic that a lot of people have varying opinions on
81:30Okay, last question. Someone did ask did I miss the part because Chris answered how do you get more bookings if you're slow? They said anything besides just hiring someone to take over, like what can they do? Like low cost, like something physically they can do on the next day to get butts and seats and make money? Giveaways.
81:50The giveaway with the flash sale
81:56Okay, anyone else? I mean, that is a good one. Chris just ran one and he said we could share the results of it inside the masterminds. We're going to go deep dive into it.
82:05But I think he booked over 50 sessions, right Chris?
82:08But I definitely think that's definitely a little bit of a complicated one although you might be better at setting them up than me, Jen. Anyone have anything like you can do in a day or two?
82:16I send out every now and then a last minute opening so I got an email or in my VIP group and almost always I get that booked and that's maybe not three or four bookings but it's the one for the next day or next week that I needed to fill
82:33Awesome, anything where you don't require a list?
82:37You don't need a list or following. Friend requesting for me at least has worked really well. I know a lot of people have a lot of picky feels around that but my sort of representation of my mission and purpose and helping women heal through boudoir photography and just making those connections like you were saying, Chris, about networking through Facebook.
83:01The fact that women see that I have like 50 other friends that they have mutual friends with makes me more of a real entity than if I was just direct messaging them like hey, come book a session. So I'm really making those connections and then yes, of course, starting those conversations prospecting. That's like the basis of all marketing is just getting to know people and then of course putting an offer out there. For me, the donation kind of campaign I felt really connected to more so than a giveaway. I ran a giveaway last year and I honestly didn't feel at all in the zone like I had previously.
83:45For this, I'm now distributing my session fees to this animal pet restaurant. You and I got a puppy about two years ago now so I've been in puppy world for the past two years and it's been really helping me connect with my clients who also want to donate and want to give back to a pet rescue and then also get a gift certificate towards a session. So I've really loved that campaign and kind of making it my own because that hadn't been something I saw that anyone else did in that way but I chose to kind of put my spin on it
84:16So anyone else, anything they can do in a day or two?
84:19Never discount the hustle. Like wake up, go on Facebook, go on Instagram, find some people, have a conversation that you were uncomfortable having. If you are a business owner and you're sitting waiting for it to happen, you won't be one for long
84:39Okay, what about Caitlyn and Christina? Give us input from a newborn maternity.
84:44Well, you can always run a project that's like a model call. Just get people in and then offer like a couple prints or a couple images and then try to upsell them at the apps
84:58So really quickly, one thing that I don't think anybody has mentioned yet is using social media to really harness the bookings and typically people will respond when there's something new or something exciting and you can recycle materials. Like you might have gotten a new prop like three or four months ago and already posted about it but post it again in Instagram stories. I remember back in like 2019, 2020, Humberto's like you got to do stories, you got to do stories. I'm like I don't want to do stories. Like you got to do stories, people watch them.
83:33And you know, maybe about two years later I started doing stories and I really noticed that people relate to them, they look at them, they respond to them. If you put links in your stories, people will click on them. So don't just put a story up. It has to have some sort of engagement so that people will respond to it and I'll always put like message me right? Like this is your call to action. There has to be some sort of call to action. I have to tell my followers what I want them to do. So putting direction on that story, something, some sort of really clickbaity type of thing that people want to do, and then what is a call to action? Message me, go to my Facebook group, whatever. There has to be both the clicky, the thing that they need and they want, and then also the call to action.
86:20Okay, all right guys, thank you guys so much. It's been about 90 minutes. Thank you for all the panels that showed up. We did have some last questions people wanted to know like how they could see all of your amazing work, how they could become familiar with you guys. So if you are on the webinar or you're watching this somewhere else, Facebook or whatever, we will be sending an email out with the replay link. On our website, we're going to have their studio names, their locations, and a link back to them. And I encourage you guys, if you guys are part of the free group, you can look everyone up by their name. I think everyone's name matches Facebook so you can definitely friend request them, connect with them. And that's what it's all about.
87:02And that's why we brought this together because I asked a question in the Facebook group like what would you ask somebody if you were sitting at coffee with them and then I was like oh I know a bunch of studio owners that we can ask these questions to. So I took all those questions, I distilled them, and then we answered some questions live.
87:18Super helpful and you guys can give us feedback because this is the first time we've run this. But I really hope you guys enjoyed and yeah, hope you're inspired.
87:29Thanks so much guys.
87:31Thank you. Thanks everyone for joining.