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Jen Bruno Smith breaks down exactly how she built a portrait photography studio generating $50K+ months through email automations, bridal shows, Facebook groups, and systematic client workflows.
0:00Welcome today. If you're wondering what the heck is on the screen, we're looking at about fifty thousand dollars in generated income from a portrait photography studio here with Jen Bruno Smith and it's happened in about 23 days. So we're going to find out exactly what led to this, how this happened, and Jen's going to share some insights into what led to this immense success. So hi Jen, how are you?
0:25Hey, I'm really good. How's it going?
0:29Pretty good. So we're basically 23 days into the fall and this typically tends to be people's really busy season. And for a lot of people, 50,000 in 23 days or a month, that can make up their entire year. So before we even get into that, I want to know how did you even get to this point? How did you even get into portrait photography of women? How did you get into boudoir?
0:53It's a great question. So I've been shooting for about nine years. I used to shoot family, maternity, newborn for maybe about five or six years. And then I had a client that was like, "Hey, can you take some sexy pictures of me for my boyfriend?" And I was like, "Yeah, sure." And I started and I was really good at it. And then it just kept going and I kept getting hired. And then I started figuring out the secrets to running my business effectively and it just took off. And now here we are. Sometimes I'm still a little in shock when I pull these metrics up and I'm like, "Wow, it's another fifty thousand dollar month." Wow, I'm trending towards sixty thousand dollars this month. It's insane.
1:38Okay, so obviously you didn't start like this. How did you even get to this point? What were the stepping stones? How long ago did you start?
1:49Yeah, so I started shooting in 2009. And I worked a full-time job concurrently. I was a speech pathologist, so I worked in the schools, I worked in medical settings. And then I got a job where I was working as a clinical liaison, basically a marketer, and I used to market to physicians. But what that allowed me to do was have a lot more freedom. So I was basically making my own schedule and I was working from home and kind of going out and marketing to hospitals when I wanted to. And that allowed me to start shooting more. And what I found was the more I started shooting, the more I was getting hired. And then it just got to the point where I was losing money by working my day job. So I quit and here I am.
2:40Okay, so that's a pretty long journey. But how did it start? You know, a lot of people always say this. People credit success to where they live, you know, maybe they had some artistic side. Do you consider yourself just natural born? When you started, was it all super successful or where did you even start as far as the business?
3:03Yeah, so I feel like my education and background—so I have a bachelor's degree in business and marketing, and then I worked as a clinical liaison, so I really dug into the marketing side. And I feel like once I started working those jobs and getting that education, I started realizing and understanding what I needed to do to apply it to my photography business. And once I started doing those things, it really started taking off. And for me, I think the key was building my email automations. I really feel like that was the start of when my business started to become really successful. Having those multiple touch points with my clients was so important.
3:47Okay, so you start getting those emails and people start getting contacted multiple times. How did you even start getting people on your email list?
3:57Yeah, it's a great question. So I actually didn't start running Facebook ads until July of this year. So last year my business grossed over a half a million dollars without any Facebook ads, without Google Adwords. So what I started doing to build my business was going to bridal shows. And I used to do like eight to ten shows a year. I was hitting the pavement hard, and I would build my email list through bridal shows. And the great thing about bridal shows—I don't think they get enough credit. I think that a lot of people write them off, especially boudoir photographers, but it's very powerful. You know, when you think about booking people, most of the time it's much easier to book warm leads. And what you're doing at a bridal show is turning people into warm leads quickly because they're getting to know you, they're seeing your work, they're having that one-on-one interaction, and it's so much more personal than whenever you see someone coming into your inbox and you don't really know them. So that's the first really amazing thing about bridal shows. And then the second is you're catching people at the beginning of their life cycle. So think about when people book boudoir photographers or really any photographer in general—it's during major life events, right? When you're getting married, before your first child, after your second child, when you've lost 20 pounds, when you're getting a divorce. So people will book you at major changes in their life cycle. And whenever you start getting to know them at the very start of their life cycle, their adult life, they'll keep following you, especially if you stay in their inbox.
5:33And I just talked about this the other night. I had a really great experience last week. I did a shoot for a woman and I always ask her how they found me because my studio manager Nikki books a lot of my shoots now, so I really don't have a lot of interaction with them before. But she's like, "You're not going to believe this, but seven years ago we were at a Christmas tree farm and you took a picture of my daughter who was six months at the time, and then we got on your email list and we've been following you ever since." And so my sales average is four thousand dollars and I booked her because seven years ago I was actually pregnant with Jackson and we were at this Christmas tree farm doing our gender reveal pictures, and I remember them. I saw them and her daughter had these beautiful blue eyes and the light was perfect and there was green behind her. And I was like, "Oh my God, your daughter's gorgeous! I'm so inspired by her face. I just want to take her picture." I'll email you the picture. I don't want any money. And they kept my information. I stayed in their inbox. And then she hired me. And that's a four thousand dollar sale, easy, if not more.
6:43That's really cool because you know that seems like you just love photography so much and you're obsessed with it and you see pretty things and you take photographs of them. And a lot of times, everyone always thinks, "You know, what kind of marketing ploy? What kind of this or that?" And it's like, if you provide value to people and you connect with as many people as possible and you're just nice and you provide value back to the marketplace, people remember you and they'll tell their friends about you and then come back with raving reviews. And I feel like you're at that point because you started from that.
7:12That's it. And I think that's the key that people miss is you have to remember that people buy from people they know, they like, and they trust. So your client base needs to know you, they need to like you, and they need to trust you. And if you're missing any of those things, it's difficult to get booked.
7:30Yeah, and I always make the analogy that you know, who's the realtor you used to buy your house? It was the one you knew, right? They might not be the best realtor in Delaware. You don't know who that is. No one knows who that is. But as long as you know them and you like them to you, in your world they become the best realtor. Right? Because you use them. And why would you not use somebody who's actually really good?
7:53Yeah, that's right. So you mentioned your average being at that point. So obviously, you know, seven or eight years ago, that wasn't your average. So how did that escalate? How did you go from taking people's pictures for free at a pumpkin patch to where you are now? Was it overnight?
8:14No, it wasn't overnight. It's been a lot of growth. So I come from a scientific background, and I understand the scientific process in analyzing things and figuring out what works and what doesn't and changing variables. So getting to this point has been a lot of that. I'm always analyzing my process and tweaking things and looking at my shooting workflow and seeing which poses are selling and which aren't and how I can change and what I can do to be better. And even from last year to this year, I think last year my sales average was like around 3,200. This year it's 4,000. So even just in a year, last year I was like, "There's no way I'm going to get higher than that." And then this year it's solidly four thousand. It's crazy. But if you keep working and figuring out what works, you just keep getting better.
9:21Yeah, and I think that's a really good point because a lot of times I'll see people. They'll try to cherry-pick pricing from a bunch of different people, put it together, and they're one sort of process—like a Frankenstein of stuff. And they're just... I was just talking about that today. I literally just talked about that on the phone this morning. You're right, absolutely. So they put together this Frankenstein and then when they don't have that mindset of like, "Hey, how do I improve all this?" They just try it once and they say, "Well, this doesn't work." And then they'll go into a Facebook group and they'll validate it and say, "Who else has a problem with this?" And then people that also believe that will validate their opinion and say, "Yeah, you're right, it doesn't work." And then they just leave and say, "Well, three people on a Facebook group said it didn't work and it didn't work one time for me." And then they give up.
10:10It's such a good point. I love that you just said that. I was literally just talking about that this morning because I talk to so many photographers. You know, listen, there's more than one way to do things, and our way isn't the only way that works. There are other ways that work too. But what I find is that photographers will pull bits and pieces from what I do and then bits and pieces from someone else and then someone else, and then someone else. Then they try and build this Frankenstein of a business model and then they're like, "Why isn't this working? I'm not finding success?" It's like you're using things that don't work together. The sum is greater than the parts. So what you need to do is find something that works—a model that works—and then you lean into it and you do it. You need to be open to the change instead of trying to do it the cheap way and just pull inexpensive things from each. But that doesn't always work. It's better to just make the investment and do something that works and then do it the whole way instead of pulling these bits and pieces out from a million different models.
11:13Okay, so you're going to these bridal shows. What was that like? Was your first booth successful? Did it look pretty? What did that look like?
11:25So the first show, I actually took... so my husband was there. I was pregnant—I was definitely pregnant—and then we had Liz, my makeup artist, and then I actually had a girl named Taylor who was the very first girl that I did a boudoir shoot for. And we booked like eight people and I was like, "Oh my God, this actually works." And my booth was not impressive. I had done maybe three shoots and those were the images that I showed. I used a tablecloth and I used ribbon and I tied it to a backdrop stand. It was very simple. But yeah, once we realized that it worked and then I collected those emails and I started following up with people, I was like, "Oh my God, eight shoots. That was so simple." And yeah, I invested in the booth fee, but it's paid back in spades because I will still book people from shows that I did three years ago. They'll book me and they'll be like, "Hey, I met you in Philly in 2016," and I'll be like, "Wow." They'll even keep my marketing cards. It's crazy.
12:40Yeah, that's pretty cool. So you book those eight and you start getting those emails. What do you think the hardest part was of even getting started with it? Because for me, that's something I would probably never dare do because I would get overwhelmed by how much physical stuff has to be made. I'm so fickle that I would get something printed and then I would want to change it and I'd be like, "Well, I can't do the show now." So what do you think was the hardest part? And what stops most people from doing it successfully?
13:16Yeah, so what held me back in the beginning was I didn't know where to start. I didn't know how to do a show. I didn't know what I needed. And there aren't a lot of resources out there. I remember being on Pinterest and searching Facebook groups, and there were no courses that told me as a boudoir photographer how to do a show and do it well. So that was the biggest thing that was holding me back because I didn't have a guide. I didn't know what to do. And I was fairly new to the genre, fairly new to running a successful business and being booked out. So that was basically what held me back in the beginning. But now I've done so many shows. I just ordered all of the promo stuff—like a thousand or two thousand—in a clip and it just stays in my garage. And now I'm at the point where I'm booked until late August of 2020, booked solidly with three to four shoots a week. But I'm still going to do two shows. I'll be booked out for 2020 by the end of this year, shooting three to four a week. It's crazy.
14:27That's pretty crazy. It's job security. I love it. I know I'm going to have income. I'm not worried about it. I love shooting. And when I don't shoot for a while—I just took a vacation and I didn't shoot for five days—and I was starting to get a little anxious.
14:44Where did you get the emails for your email content when you started? Because for a lot of people, they go to the shows, they'll try it, they'll book some people there, and they might get some emails. But almost every person I've spoken to—if they've done the show before—they've spoken to me or you. It's not a horror story because it's better than they were before, but they'd literally be like, "Oh my God, my show went pretty well. I got bookings. It paid for itself. I have all these emails. What do I do with them? What do I write? These people." And I'm like, "Wait, how long ago was that?" And I've literally had people say it was a month ago, two months ago. I'm like, "Oh no. Oh no. You need to continue."
15:21Yeah, so I wrote them and I just got a copywriter. What I do is I send her information and then she makes it look really pretty and puts it all together. And then now my studio manager will write blogs. So I shoot so much and almost all of my clients let me share their images. I would say maybe nine out of ten. And after every session, I send out a post-session questionnaire, and nine out of ten times they fill that out, too. And we turn that into a blog. So a lot of my email marketing is actually relationship building. So it's a lot of before and afters and here's this person's story. And then in between there, I throw in informational things like what types of lingerie to wear if you're built like this, or what types of lingerie are the best to wear for your boudoir shoot, the five makeup types that look best when you're doing a boudoir shoot, or this is what will happen, or how to take off your false eyelashes—things like that that people want to know and they might be scared to ask or they might not even know that they need to ask or know. So things like that are really helpful. And when I'm providing them, you're more likely to have people open emails when you're providing them with information that they want to know, instead of just sending sales and promotions. The biggest mistake I see photographers make with email automation is they'll just send out email after email with sales and promotions. So the only time you're hearing from people is whenever they're running a sale—which is once a month—so there's no sense of urgency there for your client base. You're just throwing sales at them. There's no relationship building. It's just a bunch of sales that no one buys.
17:13Yeah, and by the way, a pro tip—because obviously you guys know if you're on our email list that me and Jen have tons of emails and tons of value that we put in there. One thing you can do, like if you absolutely hate hate hate writing like me, and Jen kind of does—is doing Facebook Lives. And then you can either go back and write your points out from what you've said, or you can even use the new Google thing. There's an app or an accessibility thing. We were writing a blog and I literally just put my phone and it transcribed the whole thing. We just went back and fixed some of the words and like, oh, there's an entire blog and an entire page. So smart for us. And I know me and you do that a lot. We'll do lives and then we'll give them to a writer and then they'll just write amazing blogs.
17:59Yours are always better though because you can stay on topic and I ramble.
18:04Okay, so you got all these emails. By the way, you know, sometimes it's hard if someone's at zero emails. It feels like when you're starting Instagram and you have zero followers, you start a new business, you're like, "Ah, I'm at zero." You get excited, you make your profile, you post your nine images, and you're like, "Oh man, I got 20!" Like, how do you get past that barrier if you have zero right now?
18:35Yeah, so here's the thing. You just have to do it. I think so many people get hung up with inaction or the fear of action. And you just have to rip the band-aid off. You just have to do it. Everyone starts somewhere. And today might be the day where you're starting or where you're deciding to start. And you just have to do it. You just have to take that step and just start. Because if you never start, then you're never going to get anything done. And if you keep doing what you've always done, you're going to get what you've always gotten. And no one wants to stay there. Even though last year we grossed half a million dollars, this year my goal was to grow to 600 thousand from the studio. And it's always good to keep moving and keep having goals. But you just have to start. You just have to do it.
19:25Yeah, and the funny thing is, we do done for you and we have a lot of students that start with zero. The biggest thing is, if they want a jumpstart, I agree bridal shows definitely help. We do a lot of opt-ins. So we'll create a guide. We have a photographer that made a lingerie guide and it doesn't sell, but people opt-in. Everyone that joins the website—like five to ten percent of people download it from the pop-up. And then even from ads, we'll run traffic to that stuff. And honestly, I've heard people tell us those are the best leads. Even 10, 20, or 30 emails is better than zero because those people have people to talk to. Those people are joining your group. Those people are leaving their phone numbers. And you don't need volume. I think you did an interview with Lydia. She had a splash sale and I think she booked like 30 women and she only had like 400 people in her group. Everyone's obsessed. They're like, "How do I get ten thousand?" And it's like, yeah, people get tattoos. They all got tattoos.
20:31Yeah, her clients got matching tattoos. They got matching tattoos. I was like, that is next level. That's wild.
20:39And by the way, speaking of which, not only do you have a massive email list, you have a massive Facebook group. And I always tell people they're almost the same thing. They're platforms that are your communities where you get to deliver your message. How did you build your Facebook group? How did you go from email list building at bridal shows to building a Facebook group?
21:01So a lot of work. A lot of work and a lot of engagement and a lot of... I don't know if coddling is the right word, but I take care of the group. I put a lot of effort into it. Especially in the beginning, I did a lot of lives. I did a lot of relationship building. And I know the thought of doing a live in a group is kind of intimidating. I totally get it. But again, you just have to do it. And what you can do is actually ask your group what questions they have. What do you want us to talk about? And then you'll see they'll write a million things. And then you choose what you want to talk about and you pick one or two. Say someone writes, "What do I wear to my shoot?" I actually did a whole lingerie class in my VIP group one night. I picked out about 20 pieces of lingerie—some of it was mine, some of it was from the studio—and I just picked the pieces up and I talked about, "This is a body suit. This is... I love shooting these. They shoot really well. This is a baby doll negligee. Please don't ever bring these because I won't ever shoot it." I went through pieces. It was a 45-minute class. And it was probably one of my most popular lives that I did. And people still watch it. And because my group is so big now, there are features that roll out. One of the features in my VIP group is topics. So all of my classes are listed as a topic. And in my VIP group, all the testimonials—there are like hundreds in there. I list those as a topic so people can go in quickly. And if they're new to my group, they can go right to click on the topic "Testimonials" and they'll see like 120 or however many testimonials I have.
22:55Yeah, that's really cool. So you know, seven years ago, zero Facebook group, zero email list. And maybe for people that don't exactly know, it's been growing steadily because you used to shoot everything. So let's talk about that. You used to shoot everything—newborns, all of it, dogs, everything. How did you transition from that?
23:20Yeah, I mean, I wasn't the best dog photographer. To be honest, I really wasn't that great at it. But I shot everything. And I remember very specifically. I would hear other educators talk and they would be like, "You need to find a niche. You need to find what you're good at. You need to focus in." And I'd be like, "No. I can book so much more whenever I shoot products and headshots and models and families and newborns and maternity and seniors and corporate headshots. Everything." I literally shot everything except for weddings because weddings give me an anxiety attack. But everything. And then what I found is when I started leaning into my niche, into one genre, it just grew massively. And now in my state, in the tri-state area—I live in Delaware—people know me everywhere. We'll go into a restaurant and there's a person staring at...
24:16me and smile and wave and I'll be
24:18hey
24:20and then they'll come up to me and be oh my god you're dead
24:23they know you whenever you find your niche and you stick to it people will recognize you and then you're building that brand recognition and you're building the trust and the loyalty and so now if someone asks about a boudoir shoot in a Facebook group my name will come up 50 times almost everyone because if I haven't shot that person I've shot three or four people that they know and that's huge
24:49yeah that makes sense and the other thing is it's really hard because I do work with people that shoot multiple genres and some of them are extremely talented and they're in a lot of genres number one it's very hard to find people that are extremely talented in all these different genres
25:06yeah imagine trying to be the best newborn photographer and the best maternity and the best headshot and the best wedding engagement portrait it's hard
25:17yeah second part is they have to start building out email automations for almost every single one so it's like level of education imagine your jack of all trades but then the boudoir photographer imagine they're competing with you you have an email automation for a year just on this with hundreds of testimonials and they might have two because their attention is just so spread thin
25:40how did you even start weaning off of the different genres and how did you end up on boudoir
25:51yeah so as I guess that you can think about a scale as the scale started tipping with more boudoir then it started tipping the other way and I started tapering off the other genres and newborn was the last genre that I tapered off of and towards the end I actually hired an associate photographer to take those newborn shoots because number one I didn't want to shoot them and number two I wasn't as good at it as she was because she shoots it all the time and then I hired her to shoot Lincoln's newborn pictures because I didn't even want anything to do with shooting my own kid and I recognized that I wasn't as good at it as she was and that was a pretty pivotal point for me where I was like okay when I focused and I leaned in on my boudoir photography and now because I did that I know I can do a good job no matter who walks through the door I very rarely will get anxious anymore about anything when someone because I know I'm prepared I have all the tools in my head I have all the poses I need to do I know I can shoot someone no matter what their body type is and that's important and you know versus with a newborn for instance that was the other genre that I shot a lot of you know if you have a crying baby I was like alright well we'll reschedule that was kind of the point where I was I didn't even really want to try anymore I was just like we're good or hey I'll give you back your because you've money to get to the point where you don't want to try anymore and that's kind of where I was and now with the boudoir I just feel like I am an expert at what I do and because I have that confidence it makes my clients trust me more
37:38okay so by the way I do want to jump back to this because this is probably why most people logged on right they were like holy smokes how does this chart work so walk us through this you this is basically I know it says the 31st but it's only the 23rd so how many clients did this take where are these people being booked from how are they finding you and how does how do you sustain this right because for a lot of people they would just get so bogged down I know for me even think about I'd probably get so bogged down by just this month that every month after would go back down to regular world five thousand six
28:18yeah how do you keep it because I know some of your past months are basically mirroring this almost
28:24yeah yeah so I should have pulled all of how many shoots I did I feel like this month I've done 3 6 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 so this month so far I've done 15 shoots and I've had eight ordering appointments and I have five more ordering appointments to go so I actually know that by the end of this month my month and revenue should be probably over 60. It's going to be my highest month of the year and how I maintain this is through systems and automations everything is systematic I'm very systematic in my workflow and my shooting I have timelines everything is nailed down and if I didn't have those systems there's no way I can maintain this because it's a lot of work if I was having to write emails every single time think about the extra time that would take me but instead when they leave my shoot I set the automation for their ordering appointment and then that goes it just does it by itself and so when they come back they're ready and then most I do do payment plans but a lot of them pay in full and if they pay in full they leave I place their wallet order if they've made one if not I do their album proof I send it out and I give them their digital files when they leave if they've paid in full and so then all that's left is I have to order the album and they approve the proof so it's very systematic it's very simple and it works really well and I keep to my system and I keep to my timeline that way I don't drop the ball on anything
30:11so one of the biggest things I'm going to ask because this number is incredible thanks how do the expenses stay low
30:19yeah right how do they stay low you know and how do they just not creep up right because most of the time when businesses start making more money they start spending even more right like people making 15,000 and then just going and spending 25 and then they're in the red that's a great question so I have three major expenses right the red is client orders the blue is retouching and then the green is hair and makeup artist those are my three main expenses and I don't really buy anything else and my subscriptions come out yearly so those expenses are on a different month so some months it might be a little higher right like I use Animoto I use Sticky Albums but still that's only what like 300 dollars I don't know so a lot of my subscriptions come out in one time at one time so I mean I'm sure it would be slightly higher if I did it monthly but I think it's easier to keep track of it that way and then really I don't have a lot of expenses I don't go and buy crazy props like I'm very simple with what I shoot like you're in the room right now where I shoot most of my sessions and those two plants I got from Amazon a year ago that white rug I got from Home Goods five years ago I got this tapestry from Amazon I got that tapestry from Amazon and I have two of them hanging they were 16 a piece and my clients love it it's their favorite prop and then that chandelier I got from Amazon a year ago it was 80 I'm very simple I keep it simple there's no reason to continue to spend money which is the other reason when I got out of newborn photography I was spending so much money on newborn props like newborn hats and headbands and rompers and shorts the list is never ending and newborn photographers you always feel like you need to have another prop another set another look right because you don't want to repeat the same thing with other newborns right so you're always buying and those things are expensive one newborn set is probably 150 you know I was doing that all the time so just taking that expense out is huge but my three core expenses monthly are retouching client orders and hair and makeup those every month it's the same with those
32:50okay so we've done an overview of where you started how you got here and basically your ethos and strategy and then obviously that culminates in your monthly earnings and what the expenses look like so for someone who's watching this and oh I don't even know where to start I don't even know how this works can you just walk us through what does it look like first imagine your ideal client is out there and they're about to find you somehow whether it's what is their journey like through your process what does it look like before they know you all the way till they're picking up their package you just describe that
33:29yeah okay okay so is this like with someone that's booked me or someone that hasn't booked me
33:37I want to say with someone that has that let's just say they have no idea who you are right now they don't know you exist and they're going to find out about you today what would that journey look like talk about the touch points you know emails anything your phone calls
33:54okay so say they find me somehow they're in my VIP group or they find me through Google or someone recommends me on Facebook my first goal is to get them into an email automation for my cold leads which we were talking about it spreads over the span of a year at this point and then in those emails my next job is to get them into another way of contacting them with my text messaging with my VIP group with Instagram I'm always trying to get them in as many ways as possible to follow me because remember you can't put all of your marketing eggs in one basket right like Facebook you can't guarantee that people will see stuff you put on Facebook you can't guarantee people will see stuff on Instagram so you have to try and reach them in as many ways as possible so they'll follow me through my email automation and let's say they decide they want to book so they send me an email and then Nikki my studio manager will respond back and set up a phone consult and she her booking rate is pretty good I mean she books probably about five out of ten and which half is really good for booking and then when they're on the phone with Nikki she takes their retainer fee and then starts them in Dubsado which is my CRM my client relationship management software and she will start them into an automation for booked clients and so after she books them she also schedules my hair and makeup artist and starts their automation and then she writes me and lets me know that they're booked and then I also write them on a paper calendar that I have because I really like paper calendars and I like highlighters and so I highlight them different colors so that I know quickly what I'm doing so then they follow through my email automation until their shoot and two months before their shoot Nikki calls them and confirms their date to see if they have any questions a month before their shoot they get another email saying hey in one month you have a shoot coming up right back yes if you're ready to be a bombshell or whatever that email says and then it continues on they continue getting emails much like that and then the day before their shoot there's another email that goes out saying confirm your shoot it's tomorrow and if they don't respond quickly enough Nikki will text them and call them and then Nikki will actually confirm with my hair and makeup artist and myself that the shoot is confirmed so she's on them and I actually just started implementing that a few months ago because I wanted I needed to turn over something else to her and that was something I was doing so I gave her that responsibility so she follows up and she also confirms my ordering appointments as well and so we do the shoot and then right after they leave I start them in another automation for their ordering appointment preparing them for their ordering appointment and the first email they get has my full investment menu and then there's seven or eight other emails that follow then they come for their ordering appointment they make their purchasing decisions and if they decide to do a payment plan I will figure out their payment we'll figure out the terms of their payment plan when they're there I create all the invoices in Square automatic invoicing so that they're ready to go I write down the amounts that they're paying and the date so every calendar so say their next payment is 11 15. I'll write their last name Smith and then 500 and circle it in my paper calendar as well so I know that that money is coming in and then on that day of their last payment I'll write deliver in my paper calendar just as a reminder that I need to get their order out as quickly as possible and I always deliver on the day that their payment plan ends they've been waiting for six months I don't want them to wait a second more right and then I place their order once they approve the album proof and albums are sent to me and then I send them to the client and wall art I drop ship directly to the client and then if they've given me permission to show their images then I also send them an email the next day asking them for a before and after or before picture just a no makeup selfie and most of my clients do that as well and then they also get that post session questionnaire that we turn into blogs
38:26that sounds pretty streamlined and yeah and that's basically the exact same for everyone right it's the same it doesn't change yeah I say the same things I do the same things Nikki does the same things
38:38yeah I remember a couple maybe a year ago exactly I remember because it was my New Year's resolution to go back to the gym and I was listening to a podcast and the guy on the podcast he had a heart attack yeah and he talked about how he never saw his kids he never had time with him and he basically sold his business and wanted to get out of it and he said one of the biggest problems was even though his business did have processes he was doing a lot of custom work and his quote was bespoke equals broke right so if you do bespoke work which is the English word for ultra custom or tailored like you're going to be broke and he said the thing you need to really focus on is just creating widgets right so create an assembly line and you kind of describe that right they get a new email list they join your group they get greeted they have a phone consult they get put into this process they get the shoot they get into them and they order and then you guys have your behind the scenes processes
39:36yeah you're not going to have a heart attack hopefully
39:40yeah no I very rarely get stressed out ever and you're not slowed down month to month because every single time I see people scaling people that don't have processes it really quickly starts breaking down because they start getting overwhelmed things start falling apart this didn't get edited this got ordered wrong their order didn't come in two albums from the same client because they didn't even realize the same client you know I actually missed a whole part of the process when you start talking about that but because I also send it out to my retoucher so as soon as they're done with their shoot I start that email automation and then I send out the images I send them out to my retoucher and then they come back about two days before the ordering appointment and then I do that working so anyway there was a little part there that I forgot when you said that it reminded me
40:23by the way I did want to clarify because I saw on that chart I know people might be curious on how much you spend on advertising and I'm kind of familiar because we do your ads yeah and I think on a regular month we were doing about maybe close to 1,000 dollars in advertising you're so busy now that you were like I don't really need that so it might be 300 or 450 somewhere in there but it is super low depending on how many clicks the Google ads get
40:51yeah it's super low and even in my experience because I know again I want to break through people's stories because they're probably just like oh you know not I'm not saying everyone but some people are just like well Jen probably spends so much on advertising so that's the only reason they don't see how much work goes into it but people even spending two three four hundred even a little bit they're seeing results and the best part is I always tell people you only need to come up with the first couple hundred right even maybe the first hundred depending on how good you are on the phone and how good your sales process is because if you put it in and then you get a booking from that then that just paid for your advertising plus more right as you go you're playing with house money
41:31yeah that's right and yeah how do you see that for yourself is advertising a must like I know you do a lot of organic in that space where do you see the paid portion coming in
41:44so it was very important when we ran our session giveaway in August I feel like that really helped grow the group and so my group grew by how many did it grow by and are there now it's probably 3,000 yeah so I mean that so yeah I mean there was definitely an ad spend that was by far the highest ad spend I've ever done but it's paid off I booked 90 sessions and we had 3,000 people join the group and my email list grew by 4,500 maybe yeah it was a lot and then a lot of people just saw the ads and got impressions right and it reminded older people about it yeah and all those people traveled to my website and so now we have their information in case we want to ever retarget them right so the ad spend that month was really large but it was so worth it like you have to spend money to make money so you know I feel like in the past when I've done this session giveaway and booked a lot of sessions it was very successful I still was booking 30 to 40 but with that extra steroid push of the Facebook ads it basically doubled what I'd been doing and it also circumvented Facebook does not like grow your group contests right you can get shut down for that so the best way to circumvent that is to have people requesting to join your group instead of people adding people into the group right so by doing Facebook ads you're reaching people that you wouldn't normally be able to reach and all of those ads those three or four thousand people that joined the group those are all people that requested to join they weren't people adding other people into the group
43:26yeah that's a really good point so actually I had a man I can't believe I just slipped my mind because you on the topic of the group itself anyway so all these people join the group and you already have your process where you guys are posting you're going live you're sharing content if somebody was starting from zero like I know now things have changed with a little bit of group growth how would you suggest they start because I know I was talking to maybe Kim Kim actually just joined the mastermind and she was telling me that she told she's in week one and she said that all she did was basically start emailing people out and post on social media she has 385 group members and she's already has a bunch of consults from that so where do people start like if they're at zero and no emails
44:23yeah I think a great place to start is your personal profile and also Facebook is a huge community so you want to target communities that you know potentially could have your target client right so in Delaware there's a town that has a very high SES like people the houses are more expensive people make more money that live there and there's a moms group there and every Saturday they do a small business Saturday so I make sure that every Saturday myself or my studio manager will go in and post something about my VIP group and that's a great place to start is doing some investigative work on what areas in your community could potentially be filled with your ideal client and then start infiltrating those groups and joining them and becoming a presence there and you know people need to see something quite a few times before they take action so you just start posting every small business Saturday you start being aware whenever people ask for boudoir photographer and you just start you just have to start you know
45:38yeah by the way I remember what it was on the giveaway yeah so someone so I was talking to someone and they were always so against giving away sessions right and I get it a lot of people a lot of times people are like no if I give away the session then no one will book or book until they find out who the winner is or they just the number one the argument to that is everyone we've done this giveaway model for people have booked before the giveaway has ended in dozens and dozens and dozens some people 50 some people 30 some people 25 some people close to 100 yeah and the other thing is if you don't do the session it leaves you open to getting people that join the giveaway that have no interest in that topic does that make sense so especially and I've realized this because I work with a lot of photographers if we would do a giveaway where we gave away a laptop then we would just get random realtors being like exactly yeah I want a laptop too right and it's people that would never want where something more powerful would be a camera lens that works for a specific camera or a subscription to editing software and that makes it you're not really going to join or take up our email space if you're not interested in that and I think boudoir is something that's even more specific where you might really have to want to do it or have the personality because there's some people that are super I'm not going to say religious or they're just super 100 percent yeah and they're just like we'll never no convincing 5,000 emails won't convince me
47:14absolutely yeah no absolutely and it is I mean yeah I'm going to be doing a shoot for free but I also booked 90 sessions so I'll gladly do a few hours of free work and take a hit like I think you know I'll spend about 250 on retouching and then the album itself will be about 250 so it'll be about 500 spend but I mean I booked 90 sessions and my average sale is 4,000 dollars so fast math right that's yeah and that's those people that within the first couple days it doesn't even include people what's going to happen yeah and that are have joined and now know about everything yeah absolutely it was totally worth it and I only do one a year I'll only do that one and then I'll do it again next August and the other benefit to doing the session giveaway in August is I have all this new blood in my group and Black Friday is coming up and now I have a bunch of new people that are getting to know me and have a few solid months to get to know me before I potentially run another flash sale and I grab those people as well and book out the rest of 2020
48:25yeah that's awesome so we talked about a lot and there's definitely a lot of actionable stuff people can go do and the funny thing is I know for a lot of people because it's the same with me sometimes I know what to do and I even know how to go find out how to do it but if I don't have certainty I just won't do it I'm frozen I'm like oh I just got to keep thinking about it
48:47So before we get off, is there any resource that has helped you? Any book, any podcast, anything that has helped you take more action or that you would recommend to anybody else?
48:59That's a good question.
49:02It's so I'm, we always talk about this. You always listen to podcasts and things like that, and I am such a doer and not so much a thinker. That sounds really bad, but if I think that something works, I'll just go do it and I'll just jump, and sometimes I don't necessarily think as much as I should about it.
49:25But for the most part, it's been really helpful. I love Jordan Phil for 'The Way of the Wolf.' I love him.
49:34That's one of my favorite books, and then of course Simon Sinek. It's great, I love him too.
49:39But I honestly don't do as much reading and listening as I should because I'm working so hard.
49:46Yeah, I know. And I actually think that's a good point because I think sometimes we do too much listening and reading and YouTubing and podcasting, etc.
49:57And I always say, and I've heard other people put this eloquently, and they say that basically starts turning into a substitute for action.
50:07And that could be anything. That could be a Facebook group. It's like instead of me going and doing all this stuff about email marketing that I just heard, in the past I might have been like, well, I gotta go ask 60 people in a Facebook group to make sure that I'm doing the right thing. Because if you don't say it, then it gives me an excuse not to do it.
50:24Yeah, so I agree. Doing it is probably the best teacher.
50:28And I found also there's such a group thing sometimes where if you're asking in a Facebook group 500 people that don't do it well either, then you're gonna get bad advice. It's better to just go do it and see what happens and work hard.
50:47Rather than sit there and be like, oh, what do the masses think? What does everyone else think about this? What should I do here? No, just go do it. And if it doesn't work, figure it out. Or if you can't figure it out, then find the tools to help you and then actually implement them.
51:03Yeah, and I think one of the biggest things is the masses tend to be very average as a whole. I'm not saying anyone listening is average, but I'm saying obviously we have a median. And median income in photography is very, very low.
51:17Yeah, I remember, and it's kind of like real estate. It ends up happening in places where creativity or your work controls your outcome. All the resources and outcome pool up at the top, and then everybody else is left thinking the system doesn't work. That's why people say realtor—sometimes they don't even think of them as real professions. You're like, oh, is that your hobby? Oh, you're a photographer, is that your hobby?
51:40Yeah, and they don't really realize. So if you go and ask the masses, you're going to get the masses' answer where you're going to get beat down and you're going to get discouraged. You're like, well, it didn't work for everyone else. And it's like, you're right, because they didn't execute it. They probably never executed, and they didn't actually get well. Even if they tried.
51:55Yeah, or they weren't open to change. They weren't open to learning. Because I've talked with a lot of photographers recently too. I'll look at their work and I'll be like, hmm, dude, you need to make some changes. I'd be like, no, no, my work is great. And I'm like, yeah, but how much money are you making? Are you getting paid for it?
52:18You know, that's the thing. You just have to be open to change.
52:22But yeah, and it's funny you said that because people ask me. I'll meet someone random. We were just in Utah visiting my dad, and you know, you talk to people, and I mean they were like, oh, yeah, what do you do? I'm like, I'm a photographer. And I'm like, oh, yeah, so what else do you do? What's your job? And I was like, no, that is my job. I'm a legit photographer. I get paid to do this. Oh, really? Because they're so used to people doing it as a hobby or working another job, or that's just their extra money.
52:54But it's rare that you find people that are doing this full-time. And what I love is our mastermind, which is more and more students are just leaving their full-time job and doing photography full-time. So it's so cool to see. I love it.
53:11Yeah, and it's funny because when I left the Marine Corps, I did 10 years. And I remember, so like five years in, I went to special operations, and my mom, she's like, I don't know how to describe it, but she's like, traditional Hispanic. She's like, you know, son, when are you gonna get a real job? I'm like, Mom, I'm doing a job that only 400 people in the world have. I'm doing pretty well. My stepdad was like, yeah, he's doing really well. Don't worry.
53:36And then when I get out of the military, she's like, okay, now you're gonna become an engineer. You're gonna become a lawyer like your cousins. Will you please make me proud?
53:44And I was like, no, Mom, I'm gonna be a photographer. And I think she was going to faint because she was like, on the side, what do you mean? You have bigger things to do. And it's just so funny that, yeah, you're right. The industry, a lot of people look at it, and you know, sometimes we don't do ourselves a bigger service. And it's a good thing that, hopefully, I believe we have a really good resource for people that are breaking that mold. And they're making other people realize, like, hey, this can absolutely be a way to make a living, a way to add value back to your community, and actually make something amazing.
54:19Yeah, it's changed our lives. I mean, we've changed it. It has changed our lives. It's my husband and my life, like our children's lives. It's absolutely amazing. We're able to do things now that five years ago I would have never even dreamed. Not in my wildest dreams. So yeah, it's amazing.
54:37Yeah, anyways, thank you so much for being on with me, Jen. I really appreciate it.
54:42Yeah, and hopefully we'll be doing a few more of these, and hopefully we'll have a third person in here that we'll be interviewing.
54:49Yeah, I look forward to that as well.
54:51Sounds good. Thank you so much. I hope that this was really helpful. We covered a lot today.
54:55All right, bye.
55:00Okay, bye.